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Post by darwin on Jul 19, 2019 19:30:03 GMT
If you want it to be something other than cores, then reply below- just note that the change was originally made because we expanded cores to T1-T8 to get rid of decimal buffs, and that T1-T8 cores do not scale with T1-T5 professions (and making professions T1-T8 too would be a headache).
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Post by Ken on Jul 19, 2019 22:38:53 GMT
Making it scale off dex just buffs an already all powerful stat, dex builds are already the meta builds on these games this’ll just add fuel to that fire. One possibility is to have it scale with either and just have it go by which core they have higher. Or have it depend on their weapon, heavier weapons like zanbatous and Spears with strength while fists kunai and katana go with dex.
Written from my phone have mercy on any autocorrects
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Post by mrplayer on Jul 19, 2019 22:55:17 GMT
Honestly, I think it's better to utilize the person's proficiency with the weapon of choice. A wild idea but since CQC are divided into different categories by tier 3 professsions, perhaps do it like this. T3 equals T4 speed. T4 equals T6 speed. T5 equals T8 speed. Most people will aim to get their main profession first when meeting a new cap. However, for some CQC builds, the individual might want to focus on a core that aligns with their style.
There are people who focus prioritizes strength (heavy weapon users), reaction-time (hyuugas/defensive fighters), and speed (flashy fighters/hit and runs). If a core becomes what decides their attack speed, of course everyone will most likely prioritize said core that doesn't ideally go with their style. So by keeping it on the profession, I think it adds a bit of breathing room for said individuals.
All that aside if it has to be a core, dexterity because... it's common sense/the go-to and just the way of the world.
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Post by Campor on Jul 20, 2019 1:55:37 GMT
Vitality's a core everyone wants tho, since tai techniques are still draining techniques. Control is Ninjutsu's primary stat anyway, so they'd want it regardless. You know what they also want? Dex. You know what they don't necessarily want? Strength. You know what making CQC Dex-based does? The stat Ninjutsu d00ds want anyway will also make them buff melee boys.
Strength all the way- Only CQC users want it, and it requires Ninjutsu users to split up their points if they want to be good at it.
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Post by mimloopen on Jul 20, 2019 3:16:08 GMT
(and making professions T1-T8 too would be a headache).
i dont believe it would take more than a few hours at most . lazy
both options here r bad
just take half a day out of ur time and set it up to t8 and quit pussy footing otherwise ull never find a system thats actually good
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Post by mimloopen on Jul 20, 2019 3:27:23 GMT
secondary opinion: dexterity so that every1 can do melee and we can get rid of this ooga booga berserk warrior in ninja land meme
put strength reqs to bigger weapons
Reasons for attack speed to be based on dexterity: - melee focus will still be better at melee (shock) due to techniques, strength and later on buffs - shinobi encouraged to actually melee with each other rather than spend every turn far away casting ninjutsu (the shonen dream) - gets rid of the problem of melee users just punching into another persons punch and ignoring defensive stats in the first place - it just makes more sense
reasons against dex being attack speed: that stupid blind clan
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Post by Chinchillas on Jul 20, 2019 3:52:50 GMT
realistically dexterity, balance strength.
That's why I assume it's such a hot button topic but if you really think about it then the reason we're even having this meme is because profs don't scale to 1-8. Everything was so simple and intuitive before as I wasn't having to remember how every stat is interconnected with each other to min-max my attacks with jutsu versatility(which I also hate)
Now "I have T3 Tai and T4 Strength which equates to T4 attacking speed, if my hit connects it also does T4 strength Damage, I use a B rank which gives me another +1 speed due to it's jutsu versatility, and now I attack with T5 Speed which is perfectly maxed with the T5 Speed cap T3 Tai gives me." Before "I have T3 Tai attacking speed, if my hit connects it does T4 strength damage, and I use a B rank. Rp accordingly"
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Post by tipsyrooster on Jul 20, 2019 5:56:31 GMT
All that aside if it has to be a core, dexterity because... it's common sense/the go-to and just the way of the world. That isn't an argument, especially when it's been jank for a long time and a common issue. This doesn't DO anything except restrict big weapons, which granted, is fine, but those weapons are never actually that good at all. Why? Because they're on average slower, and every single person caps the dodging in place stat, so they hit 0% of the time. With dex as attack speed, the person who wants to use a heavy is either crippled in his offense or defense, as opposed to a nin spec who just uhh.. gets con and dex and is effectively equal to everyone except their elemental counter(which is another, easily circumvented and unrelated can of worms). 1. Melee focus will be SLIGHTLY better at melee than people with no intention of using it, and ONLY because of their techniques. That is a problem. 2. All it encourages is every single person to cap dex. The far more likely outcome is just simple rps about dodging in place(and probably still far casting after the fact if they're against a taijutsu user). 3. People not clashing taijutsu techniques and just rping "I DODGE WITH MY RAW STATS" is one of the lamest parts of these games, period. 4. See first statement. Here's some reasons why strength should be the attack speed stat(although the profession fix is probably the best choice in this scenario): - Dexterity is already your defense against close quarters attacks. This is more than enough of a reason to invest in this core, and makes it equal to its counterpart, speed. Speed is your defense against ranged attacks. To make it both sides of offense and defense bloats it, and makes it far more valuable than any other core. - Strength only determines damage for taijutsu attacks. This is unbalanced in comparison with its counterpart, Control, which determines damage AND speed of ninjutsu attacks. Where Speed and Dexterity are clearly Defensive, Strength and Control are designed to be Offensive, with the last three cores of Endurance and Vitality representing Capacity, to take damage and perform techniques, respectively. - For the "it just makes sense" people, think about what strength is: the capacity of an object or substance to withstand great force or pressure. When you place great force upon an object, what happens? It moves, and depending on how much force, it moves much faster. Dexterity is a matter of finesse, and shouldn't be used in an offensive capacity. This is all I have to say on the matter. tl;dr Dex is too good, stop being retarded, let's try to make a game where nin specs aren't just clearly better than everyone that isn't a nin spec. Hell, maybe we can find a way to make genjutsu good, next. But I doubt it.
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Post by Ken on Jul 20, 2019 10:17:34 GMT
Everything tipsy said.
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Post by mrplayer on Jul 20, 2019 11:40:00 GMT
- Dexterity is already your defense against close quarters attacks. This is more than enough of a reason to invest in this core, and makes it equal to its counterpart, speed. Speed is your defense against ranged attacks. To make it both sides of offense and defense bloats it, and makes it far more valuable than any other core. - Strength only determines damage for taijutsu attacks. This is unbalanced in comparison with its counterpart, Control, which determines damage AND speed of ninjutsu attacks. Where Speed and Dexterity are clearly Defensive, Strength and Control are designed to be Offensive, with the last three cores of Endurance and Vitality representing Capacity, to take damage and perform techniques, respectively. - For the "it just makes sense" people, think about what strength is: the capacity of an object or substance to withstand great force or pressure. When you place great force upon an object, what happens? It moves, and depending on how much force, it moves much faster. Dexterity is a matter of finesse, and shouldn't be used in an offensive capacity. "Strong - This individual’s strength is vaguely above average. They’re capable of lifting heavy weighted objects, and performing other physically demanding tasks easier than most. A bladed weapon still feels noticeably heavy in their hands, but they can reasonably use it in combat.Alacrity - This character has the reflexes expected of a shinobi-in-training; they’re capable of fighting and avoiding strikes from unpracticed individuals on occasion and have passing balance and flexibility."These are the definitions of both first tiers of strength and dexterity, that explains the roles of these specific stats. You elaborated on the definition of strength and the science of motion when strength is factored in, however neglected the factor of dexterity. Dexterity is based on reflexes which is "a response in a part of the body to stimulation of a corresponding point on the feet, hands, or head." That said, the person with the better reflexes has a better reaction time, which is "the length of time taken for a person or system to respond to a given stimulus or event." If individual A reacts faster than Individual B in whichever situation, they're able to perform an action faster than the opposition. Whether it be to react defensively or offensively, the person is given an edge over the next. So if they choose to attack, their attack would be faster than the other because they perform the action faster than the enemy. This is why we've all watched anime fight scenes and ufc matches where the smaller and weaker fighter can defeat the big muscle dude, because they're more agile. So that's why, to me, it's common sense for a more dexterous person to attack faster. I understand the logic is to have it that Nin-specs aren't able to easily cross-over to CQC, and be able to compete which players who've primarily focused the profession. I agree with it, cause it's mechanically unfair towards CQC people like it's always been over the majority of NRPs. But there's a downside to letting cores decide your attack's speed, one that's already been slightly elaborated on above so I'm not going through all that unless I'm asked. Which is why I honestly think it's better the profession decides attack-speed. In my opinion, it's honestly better than having Pro-Dex or Pro-Str end up bitching or whining about not winning down the line, which will definitely happen eventually.
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Post by itome on Jul 20, 2019 17:37:39 GMT
Bro nobody actually cares about being CQC only users except the 2 people trying to rp rock lee
Why punish 99% of the PB for using a garbage stat nobody uses when u can just make it dex and most of the pb is happy?
even if u make it so going nintai is garbage i'll fully focus on control based perks, have more pp to focus on my ninjutsu, and clap the rock lee wannabe anyways, so in the end it's a pointless endeavor
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Post by tipsyrooster on Jul 20, 2019 17:55:53 GMT
Bro nobody actually cares about being CQC only users except the 2 people trying to rp rock lee Why punish 99% of the PB for using a garbage stat nobody uses when u can just make it dex and most of the pb is happy? even if u make it so going nintai is garbage i'll fully focus on control based perks, have more pp to focus on my ninjutsu, and clap the rock lee wannabe anyways, so in the end it's a pointless endeavor Your first statement is a non-point, so I'm gonna ignore it. This doesn't punish the PB, it just makes dex less bloated. Nobody is specifically made worse by this, strength is just made slightly better, which makes taijutsu slightly better, when it currently isn't very good compared to the magical wizard stat that decides all their things. Your nintai point basically says "my nintai is just using ninjutsu without handseals to beat taijutsu users" which A. Isn't Nintai, and B. Is retarded. Thank you for helping reinforce my point.
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Post by birb on Jul 20, 2019 23:25:16 GMT
I'm pro-dex, but it looks like the admins don't really care that much about what determines cqc attack speed? So... why not c-c-compromise? Scary word, right? Just have cqc speed scale with the higher of the two stats (either str or dex), that way cqc users aren't forced to go for a strength-focused build, or a dexterity-focused build - any disadvantages either side has will be bridged through applying for uniques.
If you have a problem with dex-based attack speed, don't @ me.
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